Interesting article about PSU scheduling FCS

[Bluewyn Gold]

Sent out emails as felt the time is right, Gloria Nevarez, MWC commissioner and NCAA president, Charlie Baker have recently visited UMass and the team and wigs are heading to former A10 member Penn State this weekend.

Steven, any news of MAC discussions last week while Toledo was in Pioneer Valley?

[Steve1981]

Sent out emails as felt the time is right, Gloria Nevarez, MWC commissioner and NCAA president, Charlie Baker have recently visited UMass and the team and wigs are heading to former A10 member Penn State this weekend.

Steven, any news of MAC discussions last week while Toledo was in Pioneer Valley?

Nothing negative and no news. Did arrive late and missed the Gridiron tailgate but a lot of the folks stayed home due to the weather forecasts and being on ESPNU,

[bluehenbillk]

Please explain the shred of leverage UD has.

William, the leverage is telling Penn State, "Sorry. Circumstances changed, so we won't be there in '27." Do it now to allow the hosts plenty of time to find another sucker. Presumably, the agreement was not signed in blood and certified by Lucifer. Cancellations like this happen all the time. There are provisions and buyouts associated with these sort of scheduling agreements. (Even happens with our Hens. You might recall SDSU backing out of the 2-for-1 earlier in the millennium and Furman backing out of the second half of a home-home.)

Sure UD can cancel, I wouldn’t be surprised if PSU cancels either. I’m sure either side can at a price. My point was UD doesn’t really have any leverage to get more $. Your solution actually costs UD money. It was great to play there but the game was a complete mismatch. ‘27 most likely would be similar.

[Cluck U]

Please explain the shred of leverage UD has.

William, the leverage is telling Penn State, "Sorry. Circumstances changed, so we won't be there in '27." Do it now to allow the hosts plenty of time to find another sucker. Presumably, the agreement was not signed in blood and certified by Lucifer. Cancellations like this happen all the time. There are provisions and buyouts associated with these sort of scheduling agreements. (Even happens with our Hens. You might recall SDSU backing out of the 2-for-1 earlier in the millennium and Furman backing out of the second half of a home-home.)

Why Delaware felt compelled to sign on for one game, let alone lock in for two, is another question altogether.

Wasn’t that SDSU cancelation a mutual agreement? Both schools wanted to save travel costs on the second and third games.

[Bluewyn Gold]

My point was UD doesn’t really have any leverage to get more $. Your solution actually costs UD money.

Well, your revised statement clarifies your point but is still not accurate. You think really UD's legal folks are dumb enough to strike a deal so one-sided that they surrender all leverage to PSU and leave themselves no room for an out? Come on, William. That makes absolutely no sense.

A few points:

1) We don't what UD's buyout liability would be, if anything. Could be 0 or very little. In any case, it is not anything close to $400K. Typically, the buyout amount is a fraction of the original guarantee, especially if done within a specified period.

2) If the buyout was $0 or a small fraction, UD CAN indeed absorb the buyout and reschedule with another FBS for far more than $400K. (See UNH's deal with Ohio State as evidence.) If UD reclassifies by '27, they would command a considerably higher guarantee, which leads to my next point...

3) The current UD-PSU agreement for '27 probably contains a provision for a mutually agreed upon renegotiation, which is fairly standard with these deals. So much can change from the time game agreements are signed to the date of execution, not the least of which is significant increases in travel costs due to inflation, conference changes, etc. Renegotiation provisions are generally included out of fairness to both parties and give both sides...you guessed it...leverage to make changes as circumstances warrant. It's absent of punitive action if both sides act in good faith.

[Bluewyn Gold]

Wasn’t that SDSU cancelation a mutual agreement? Both schools wanted to save travel costs on the second and third games.

Correct. Thank you.

It was a 2-for-1 by which the final two games were not played. It would have been revenue-neutral for both teams but would have also cost both plenty for travel. Both schools could more easily schedule a game at home with a regional team. (We picked up DSU, as I recall.)

The point I was making was that game agreements change and are canceled all the time. Nothing out of the ordinary there.

[UD '01 grad]

If memory serves, reports were DelState received in the neighborhood of $600,000 each for its massacres at Michigan and Florida State some years back. Perhaps payout structures have changed.

Below is a listing detailing 2022 games. Apologies if this was posted above.

https://herosports.com/2022-fcs-vs-fbs-payouts-bzbz/

[bluehenbillk]

My point was UD doesn’t really have any leverage to get more $. Your solution actually costs UD money.

Well, your revised statement clarifies your point but is still not accurate. You think really UD's legal folks are dumb enough to strike a deal so one-sided that they surrender all leverage to PSU and leave themselves no room for an out? Come on, William. That makes absolutely no sense.

A few points:

1) We don't what UD's buyout liability would be, if anything. Could be 0 or very little. In any case, it is not anything close to $400K. Typically, the buyout amount is a fraction of the original guarantee, especially if done within a specified period.

2) If the buyout was $0 or a small fraction, UD CAN indeed absorb the buyout and reschedule with another FBS for far more than $400K. (See UNH's deal with Ohio State as evidence.) If UD reclassifies by '27, they would command a considerably higher guarantee, which leads to my next point...

3) The current UD-PSU agreement for '27 probably contains a provision for a mutually agreed upon renegotiation, which is fairly standard with these deals. So much can change from the time game agreements are signed to the date of execution, not the least of which is significant increases in travel costs due to inflation, conference changes, etc. Renegotiation provisions are generally included out of fairness to both parties and give both sides...you guessed it...leverage to make changes as circumstances warrant. It's absent of punitive action if both sides act in good faith.

I’m sure UD’s buyout wouldn’t be zero. I’d imagine it’s probably around 10% if done a certain time out before the game, it’s usually more the closer to the game date. Are you serious about inflationary travel costs? It’s a 4 hour bus ride with one hotel night. They’re not traveling halfway across the country - it’s to central PA.

[ncspiderfan]

If memory serves, reports were DelState received in the neighborhood of $600,000 each for its massacres at Michigan and Florida State some years back. Perhaps payout structures have changed.

Below is a listing detailing 2022 games. Apologies if this was posted above.

https://herosports.com/2022-fcs-vs-fbs-payouts-bzbz/

Just slipped over reading your board and the thread caught my attention. That said I wonder if distance of travel (a plane ride) might be factored into some of these contract prices.

Michigan State I believe paid the Spiders $650K for our whipping this year. Of course their is also the fact that I do not know if we paid Morgan State for one or not and Hampton gave us one at the cost of a bus ride.

I'll get off your board now, but GL to the Hens the rest of the season, might be CAAs only chance for a top 8 seed.

[jd of de]

A $650k Michigan State payout to Richmond is very close to a $400k Penn State payout to Delaware. Those are gross numbers and the FCS schools must pay their travel expenses out of that payout.

Chartering a 737 likely cost Richmond $180k-$190k R/T, plus chartered buses on both ends.

Four buses to Penn State with one overnight is less than $15k. We’ll consider hotel, meeting rooms and meals to be equal.

In years past (Pre-COVID) most schools looked to get a net payout of $250k-$300k. Granted, you will find a few variables, but in general most P5-FCS contracts will fit that model. $250k minimum net plus travel expenses.

Amazing what we hall walkers learn

[ncspiderfan]

A $650k Michigan State payout to Richmond is very close to a $400k Penn State payout to Delaware. Those are gross numbers and the FCS schools must pay their travel expenses out of that payout.

Chartering a 737 likely cost Richmond $180k-$190k R/T, plus chartered buses on both ends.

Four buses to Penn State with one overnight is less than $15k. We’ll consider hotel, meeting rooms and meals to be equal.

In years past (Pre-COVID) most schools looked to get a net payout of $250k-$300k. Granted, you will find a few variables, but in general most P5-FCS contracts will fit that model. $250k minimum net plus travel expenses.

Good stuff. I thought it might be like that but was not sure.
Thanks, I will know in future when see Spider payouts for future.
I do know I watched Huesman in an interview and he said he told those that make the decisions to schedule them as far into the future as we can, so if FBS team wants out later they owe Spiders the buyout.

[Bluewyn Gold]

Are you serious about inflationary travel costs? It’s a 4 hour bus ride with one hotel night.

William, you extrapolated a point I didn't make at all (i.e., that inflationary costs would impact the UD-PSU deal for '27). Inflation was offered as an illustrative reason why renegotiation provisions are included in scheduling deals. Conference changes are another, and the most likely to impact UD in the case of the PSU deal, assuming the Hens reclassify before '27. Not sure why you ignored the more obvious example.

As I indicated, renegotiation terms give both sides of a mutually agreeable deal an out to change or even cancel under reasonable circumstances. This counters your suggestion that UD did not have "a shred" of leverage. Simply not true, sir.

If UD reclassifies before the '27 game, there is absolutely no way they'll visit PSU for anything close to $400k. Triple that amount at a minimum. It would likely be closer to the $1.6M UMass is getting this week.

[Roger_Podacter]

IMO, college football teams should not be scheduling games against other teams in which they are favored by 35+ points (or whatever arbitrary number you come with).

It's always, IMO again, made the sport a mockery of a sport. It's a sport in which a team gets to "pick" who they want to play 3-4 times a year.

I've always thought you should play to your level of competition. At whatever level. But I'm a moron, so there's that.