UMass to the MAC

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Steve1981
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Re: UMass to the MAC

Post by Steve1981 »

Bluewyn Gold wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:29 am A couple of final thoughts about the UMass move to the MAC and how it relates to UD.

According to a report from writer Matt Brown, UD’s decision to join CUSA was not AT ALL incumbent on UM’s potential decision to eventually join. UD would have been happy to have UM join them in CUSA, but it wasn’t a factor one way or another.

There appears to have been a rather sudden change in the MAC presidents’ philosophy, as they were not in favor of expanding as late as December ’23. According to Matt Brown (again), UMass and the MAC were likely talking as early as January ’24, maybe sooner.

You’ll remember that there were reports that UD and the MAC had some membership discussions in ‘23, but no one has said who initiated those talks or when they occurred. We also know that CUSA and UD were communicating for a much longer period than last year, but talks got more serious last summer. Based on this, my perception (not a fact) is that:

a) Colonial expansion compelled UD to reclassify sooner rather than later.
b) Both CUSA and the MAC had some level of interest in UD and vice versa.
c)By October, the signals were clear to UD that the MAC wasn’t in a hurry to expand.
d) UD & CUSA decided to pull the trigger.
e) UD’s move compelled MAC presidents to seek expansion, so consideration was granted to the school in the most immediate need of a conference and with whom they had a prior relationship.

The move makes as much sense as CUSA would have for UMass from the football standpoint and maybe overall. Not sure how well the move aligns with UM hoops, in particular. Time will tell, but that wasn't UM's primary consideration. Some questions might be answered at today's UM-MAC presser.

Interesting to learn that UMass will have to pay a $4M exit fee to the A-10. The fee to join the MAC hasn’t been reported. That puts UD's FBS fees into a little more perspective.
Listen for the past hour, actually 1:20 minutes as almost the first 20 minutes was waiting. Talks started in September, they talk about faculty, academics, academic and leadership consortium and our Chancellor jumped in as he was a product of the academic consortium. About building the next department head, deans, chairs, provost etc while Javier Reyes was at Arkansas in the SEC. Seemed very thoughtful, covering athletics, facility, students, campus vision. Not really much rahrahrah. Commissioner Steinbrecher was quietly on campus during a game in November and disappointed did not seem him.

Hey UDel did what was best for them and we did what was best for us. This has a feel of a long term commitment. The investment in athletics will accelerate with 8 to 10 times the conference revenue growth. As our AD said, we are hitting the gas, no brakes. Frank Martin is a real team player, his wife ran track at UMass, football helps raise all programs and their budgets all went up from his career. Don Brown and Frank Martin had offices next to each other at Northeastern. They both recruit in programs that were at the bottom with no bells and whistles. You recruit players that believe in your vision, the school and not the conference.
Last edited by Steve1981 on Thu Mar 07, 2024 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bluewyn Gold
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Re: UMass to the MAC

Post by Bluewyn Gold »

Steve1981 wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 4:50 pmTalks started in September...
Those discussions between the MAC and UMass must have been as informal as with Delaware.

Matt Brown reported today that his "inside information" indicated that the MAC was not interested in expanding as late as November, December, and even early January. According to Brown:
New members were not going to dramatically change the composition of future media deals [for the MAC], and school leaders were concerned about expanding travel obligations and potential dilution of conference revenue.
https://www.extrapointsmb.com/p/ive-hea ... ealignment

Kevin Tresolini indicated that Delaware was completely surprised by UMass' move, which suggests one or more of the following:

1) Delaware's move to CUSA hastened the MAC's presidents' decision to expand after October (more likely)
2) The MAC didn't let UD know that it was also speaking with UMass or otherwise misled UD that they planned on expanding soon (very unlikely)
3) Either CUSA, UMass, or both were not interested in affiliating (likely)

In any case, it seems like both UD and UM landed where they wanted to land. That's the important point.
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Steve1981
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Re: UMass to the MAC

Post by Steve1981 »

Bluewyn Gold, Think the move for CUSA to take us in, probably changed the picture. Again, glad you guys made the move and do think your eyes are on the American. Best wishes and do hope we play down the road. Very happy the MAC took us in without #14. Lots of thanks to you and CUSA for that movement. Wish you guys the best, until we play or a fellow MAC university.
topstraight
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Re: UMass to the MAC

Post by topstraight »

From Matt Brown's latest article (TODAY) (paywall):

Could UD change mind about CUSA?

"told by [UD] sources that this is DEEPLY, DEEPLY Unlikely."
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Bluewyn Gold
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Re: UMass to the MAC

Post by Bluewyn Gold »

topstraight wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:14 pm From Matt Brown's latest article (TODAY) (paywall):

Could UD change mind about CUSA?

"told by [UD] sources that this is DEEPLY, DEEPLY Unlikely."
This was also confirmed by UD's beat writer earlier this week.
dchen
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Re: UMass to the MAC

Post by dchen »

From Baltimore Hen:

THere will be a college players union. you can count on that! The players do not control the money and they are going to want to get the best piece they can. once that happens money will be collectively bargained just as in every other professional sport.

If a union comes to pass:

Will scholarships be taxable?
Will health insurance plans cover athletic injuries or will that be a workers comp event?
Will athletes strike?
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DCHen97 2.0
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Re: UMass to the MAC

Post by DCHen97 2.0 »

Cluck U wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:15 pm Money.

Although CUSA (and the G5) aren’t on the level of the Big Boys, it will be interesting to see how we will match up with the spending that will be necessary to compete at the FBS level. Liberty probably has deep pockets…maybe a couple others…will we try to match their spending?

Nick Saban, in an interview regarding his retirement:

https://www.si.com/college/alabama/foot ... resolution

’"I thought we could have a hell of a team next year, and then maybe 70 or 80 percent of the players you talk to, all they want to know is two things: What assurances do I have that I'm going to play because they're thinking about transferring, and how much are you going to pay me?" Saban told Low.

"So I'm saying to myself, 'Maybe this doesn't work anymore, that the goals and aspirations are just different and that it's all about how much money can I make as a college player?' I'm not saying that's bad. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying that's never been what we were all about, and it's not why we had success through the years.

"But the thing I loved about coaching the most was the relationships that you had with players, and those things didn't seem to have the same meaning as they once did."’



Fun times ahead. :lol:
I’m sure this was posted at some point when the announcement was made but thought it would answer your spending question
81D61BC3-5E8B-4610-B300-C4D8DB5F680A.jpeg
81D61BC3-5E8B-4610-B300-C4D8DB5F680A.jpeg (261.46 KiB) Viewed 471 times
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Cluck U
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Re: UMass to the MAC

Post by Cluck U »

DCHen97 2.0 wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 10:46 pm
Cluck U wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:15 pm Money.

Although CUSA (and the G5) aren’t on the level of the Big Boys, it will be interesting to see how we will match up with the spending that will be necessary to compete at the FBS level. Liberty probably has deep pockets…maybe a couple others…will we try to match their spending?

Nick Saban, in an interview regarding his retirement:

https://www.si.com/college/alabama/foot ... resolution

’"I thought we could have a hell of a team next year, and then maybe 70 or 80 percent of the players you talk to, all they want to know is two things: What assurances do I have that I'm going to play because they're thinking about transferring, and how much are you going to pay me?" Saban told Low.

"So I'm saying to myself, 'Maybe this doesn't work anymore, that the goals and aspirations are just different and that it's all about how much money can I make as a college player?' I'm not saying that's bad. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying that's never been what we were all about, and it's not why we had success through the years.

"But the thing I loved about coaching the most was the relationships that you had with players, and those things didn't seem to have the same meaning as they once did."’



Fun times ahead. :lol:
I’m sure this was posted at some point when the announcement was made but thought it would answer your spending question

81D61BC3-5E8B-4610-B300-C4D8DB5F680A.jpeg
Thanks, DCHen! Always fun to see comparisons between us and our conference peers.

Guess we aren’t considering bedding down with the Ivies anymore. :lol:

As interested as I am in how UD (the institution) supports our athletics, I am even more interested in how the UD fan base will support our athletics. This NIL stuff is wild…huge dollars getting tossed around. Does UD have a wealthy benefactor (or more than one) that wants to give a shite ton of money to kids so that they can play a sport? :?: Do we have fans that would raise a million bucks to give to ONE superstar recruit? Do we have fans that would give money to a kid directly as an NIL bump, or will UD fans contribute NIL money to a “cooperative” (that will take a portion of the cut) that might take the NIL money and distribute it more “fairly” to team members? How in the world will that work? If I want to support a particular player with NIL money, for HIS image (not the team’s image), do I need a UD sponsored conglomerate to do so? Can’t I just ask the kid permission to use his image on t-shirts and give him all of the proceeds for his image, or do I need to go through the company that UD wants to use?

It will be fun to see how all of this will work out. When money is involved, everyone will want a piece of the action.
Tubby: 3 national titles, one won on the field, all D2
Keeler: 3 national titles, all won on the field, one as a player, two as a coach, 1 D2, 2 FCS
Carty: 2 on-field national titles, one as a player, one as an OC, both FCS

Carty - get an FBS bowl win!
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Cluck U
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Re: UMass to the MAC

Post by Cluck U »

A quick summary of NIL….from an NIL company.

https://iconsource.com/everything-about-nil/#

As mentioned in the article (ad, really), the state of Delaware does not have any state laws pertaining to NIL rules.

“The NCAA has instructed schools located in states without an active NIL law to create and publish their own policies in the hopes that this will clear up any gray areas and create a plan to resolve the inevitable disputes that will arise.”

That is probably why Chrissi has UD going through the organization that was mentioned in another thread. Why take on the headaches in this changing landscape…just outsource it to a company that is doing similar NIL work elsewhere.

As far as taxes go, the company in the link above provides a single 1099 for all of the income sources made through their oversight. :D

In the end, it appears that an athlete can make their own deals with individuals companies (and anyone can start a company very easily, so the deals can be made with wealthy individual donors). That brings us back to the question regarding UD athletes…will they, as a group or as individuals, through local fans/businesses, be able to compete with the rest of CUSA and/or other G5 teams?

Guess we’ll find out soon enough.
Tubby: 3 national titles, one won on the field, all D2
Keeler: 3 national titles, all won on the field, one as a player, two as a coach, 1 D2, 2 FCS
Carty: 2 on-field national titles, one as a player, one as an OC, both FCS

Carty - get an FBS bowl win!
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Cluck U
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Re: UMass to the MAC

Post by Cluck U »

https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cf ... ed-to-know

Here are some snippets from a recent Sports Illustrated article about the new (and proposed) NIL rules.


“What is an NIL collective?

A collective is a company, usually established by wealthy alumni at schools, that collects financial resources and directs them to athletes for the right to use their name, image, and likeness.

Collectives help facilitate NIL deals for athletes, but are not operated by universities or their athletic departments.

Booster involvement in recruiting has always been against the rules, and the NCAA is stepping up its enforcement of that rule to include any potential NIL violations that may involve boosters using collectives to lure recruits to their schools with the promise of big NIL deals.”

“What's next?

After failing to take the lead on NIL rule changes, the NCAA has sought to establish itself as the enforcer of existing rules.

As such, in January 2024, the NCAA Division I Council voted to create new standards for NIL contracts in a move to ostensibly protect athletes following a decision made at its annual convention in the new year.

The NCAA will create standard terms for NIL contracts to make sure athletes are not taken advantage of by misleading expectations or terms from school collectives. It will also work with schools and collectives to distribute NIL data in an effort to create more transparency in the marketplace.

The NCAA has also proposed new rules that would allow itself and schools to help facilitate NIL deals for players in the future.

That's in addition to NCAA president Charlie Baker's hopes that his institution can create a new subdivision involving direct payment to athletes through a trust in what would be a major move towards providing compensation to college athletes.”



As expected, seems as though the NCAA and the schools eventually want some control of the money flow. They don’t want to miss out on their opportunity to get some of the money pot. Establishing a trust for the players? :lol: Yeah, how much will the NCAA pay itself out of that gigantic pool of money?

That money is going to have to come from somewhere. Are fans ready to pony up, or will the G5 and others go back to being regulated to single A ball?
Tubby: 3 national titles, one won on the field, all D2
Keeler: 3 national titles, all won on the field, one as a player, two as a coach, 1 D2, 2 FCS
Carty: 2 on-field national titles, one as a player, one as an OC, both FCS

Carty - get an FBS bowl win!
Attila the Hen
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Re: UMass to the MAC

Post by Attila the Hen »

What happens when a big booster pays a shitload of money to a kid that just can't play? Does the coach sit him? How about when NIL recipients get hurt?
Are the boosters buying insurance to cover this? I would also imagine that with NIL money, a lot of redshirting goes out the window. What if the kid is just not ready? Absolute nightmares for coaches.

How do you value your current players for retention, or do you stay out of a bidding war and just let them go? Do you use money for depth or strictly for talent?

No doubt mistakes will be made and NIL money will at times be pissed away on stiffs. Donations will probably have to be pooled and not attached to any one recruit. Who's head rolls if the mistakes pile up? The collective "portfolio manger?" The head coach?

Like you said, Cluck, fun times indeed.

P.S. I would use 80%+ of my money for linemen. Good skill players are plentiful-- linemen not so much.
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Re: UMass to the MAC

Post by Caribbean Hen »

HANOVER, N.H. (AP) — The Dartmouth men’s basketball team voted to unionize Tuesday in an unprecedented step toward forming the first labor union for college athletes and another blow to the NCAA’s deteriorating amateur business model.

https://apnews.com/article/dartmouth-un ... dc91461962
recruiting recruiting recruiting...It ain't rocket science....We need better more athletic players...That simple....

posted by Joe C December 10th, 2019
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Re: UMass to the MAC

Post by Caribbean Hen »

Attila the Hen wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:30 am What happens when a big booster pays a shitload of money to a kid that just can't play? Does the coach sit him? How about when NIL recipients get hurt?
Are the boosters buying insurance to cover this? I would also imagine that with NIL money, a lot of redshirting goes out the window. What if the kid is just not ready? Absolute nightmares for coaches.

How do you value your current players for retention, or do you stay out of a bidding war and just let them go? Do you use money for depth or strictly for talent?

No doubt mistakes will be made and NIL money will at times be pissed away on stiffs. Donations will probably have to be pooled and not attached to any one recruit. Who's head rolls if the mistakes pile up? The collective "portfolio manger?" The head coach?

Like you said, Cluck, fun times indeed.

P.S. I would use 80%+ of my money for linemen. Good skill players are plentiful-- linemen not so much.
Yes but the big boys will pay big boys big dollars just to come sit on the bench … finding good lineman is becoming the equivalent of finding the missing Malaysian airliner
recruiting recruiting recruiting...It ain't rocket science....We need better more athletic players...That simple....

posted by Joe C December 10th, 2019
Attila the Hen
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Re: UMass to the MAC

Post by Attila the Hen »

Caribbean Hen wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:38 am Yes but the big boys will pay big boys big dollars just to come sit on the bench … finding good lineman is becoming the equivalent of finding the missing Malaysian airliner
All relative CH. We aren't competing against the Big Boys-- we are competing against G5. We should go after the best of what's left. I'm sure there are some who would rather play than get paid to sit. And why would the Big Boys pay a bunch of money for bench sitters when they could use the money to up the bid for someone special?
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Cluck U
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Re: UMass to the MAC

Post by Cluck U »

Attila the Hen wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:30 am What happens when a big booster pays a shitload of money to a kid that just can't play? Does the coach sit him? How about when NIL recipients get hurt?
Are the boosters buying insurance to cover this? I would also imagine that with NIL money, a lot of redshirting goes out the window. What if the kid is just not ready? Absolute nightmares for coaches.

How do you value your current players for retention, or do you stay out of a bidding war and just let them go? Do you use money for depth or strictly for talent?

No doubt mistakes will be made and NIL money will at times be pissed away on stiffs. Donations will probably have to be pooled and not attached to any one recruit. Who's head rolls if the mistakes pile up? The collective "portfolio manger?" The head coach?

Like you said, Cluck, fun times indeed.

P.S. I would use 80%+ of my money for linemen. Good skill players are plentiful-- linemen not so much.
Attila, there’s the rub. Pooling money and not attaching it to one recruit might sound good, and UD could do that on their own (which would be nothing more than simply getting others to pay for athletes’ scholarship money anyway), but how does UD (or anyone else) prevent a business from deciding to put their money into one athlete? UD can’t do that…it would be interfering in a business’ decision to promote an athlete’s image...which is what got the universities in trouble in the first place. The kids are now free to use/sell their image in any way they want.

Sure, UD could tell them not to use UD’s official logo, but they could not prevent anyone from simply putting Blue Hens, a state of Delaware image and an athlete’s name on their advertising because the Blue Hen is the official bird of the state of Delaware.

The NCAA’s talk about not letting the Collectives interfere with recruiting is also a farce. Zero chance the law won’t let the athletes negotiate their image with companies that want to recruit the kid to play for a school. ZERO. How in the world can the NCAA tell a private company that they can’t encourage, and pay for, a student to go to a particular school? :lol:

The big boys are going to be a Wild West remake, with gobs of money involved. The only question is how far on that path will CUSA and the other G5s travel?

Heck, if I contribute to someone’s NIL, my money will probably go to a sailing club student, or maybe someone on the UD Trap Shooting team.
Tubby: 3 national titles, one won on the field, all D2
Keeler: 3 national titles, all won on the field, one as a player, two as a coach, 1 D2, 2 FCS
Carty: 2 on-field national titles, one as a player, one as an OC, both FCS

Carty - get an FBS bowl win!
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